Curse

Saint Scarlet · Mar 20, 2011, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

snip

I think you might be missing the point here like quite a few people. Campaigns, EoTN and the BMP are games to be played they have stories and yes rewards you can get for completing them.

But Merc heros are not games, they are an extra that helps you to play the games and not games in themselves. So there can be no comparison between them (well except they have to be paid for with RL money).

Anything that helps you to play a game is an advantage, whether or not it is minor.

If you wish to compare Merc heros with something at least pick something completely relevant like the Fire Imp.

Yes the Fire Imp gives an advantage but it is minor in comparison to what Merc heros allow you to do.

melissa b · Mar 20, 2011, 03:15 AM // 03:15

I've been going back and forth on how I feel about the mercinary microtransaction.

First thought was Anet should never sell any in-game advantage but now I feel, it ok to sell them here and there provided that the advantage is not too strong. I'm not sure exactly where the line of too strong is.

Historically you could buy advantages through the in game store or through other means. These advantages would be collectors edition providing a cash advantage kuunavang (unearned ingame gold). The storage panes giving multiple panels giving you quick access to more inventory to facilitate spamadan sales. Buying multiple accounts to double up on free zkeys when you could get them for predicting or using multiple accounts to roll 6 heroes pre-update, or to sell in 2 cities at the same time, and many more advantages. Buying magazines for minis to sell for unearned in game advantages. The fire imp and bonus weapons to lol through presearing or equip heros free.

The next thing on my mind was that it was overpriced. Yes definitly was the answer but justified by other things being underpriced. I created a equation of op+up=rp.
Op is always positive and is overpriced things like costumes and mercenaries. Up is always negative and is underpriced things like server access, war in kryta, heart of the north, winds of change, continued skill updates, profession overhauls, embark beach etc. Finally rp= reasonable price. I think the equation is still balanced.

I think it's important to provide feedback to anet though so that they know how people feel. Hopefully, to prevent them from taking it too far. Certainly some feel this is already too far and anet has been made of aware of that. If anet does take it too far in Guild Wars 1 it could hurt them in the long run with Guild Wars 2. I'm sure anet will sell more advantages in Guild Wars 2 but I still have faith it won't go too far.

Lastly, I've noticed increased free content updates in the last year coming with the increased amount of microtransactions, many of the big free updates come with paid updates at the same time. I want to thank all the people that bought all the costumes and mercenary packs, their money has benefited me by paying for the live team which is provding me with free content such as wik.

I personally didn't find the need to buy the mercinary packs because their overpriced, I can easily get through most content with 7 heroes and I've already reserved all guild wars spending for part 2. I might reconsider spending money if the item bought could be transferred to guildwars 2.

tealspikes · Mar 20, 2011, 04:48 AM // 04:48

What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?
Positive so far. I have a couple friends who bought the pack and they seem to enjoy it, although I did not purchase any.

Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)?
It is an unfair advantage.
Explain.
Mercenary Heroes provide players with more options to utilize for gameplay purposes. More options = better opportunity ≈ more powerful.

Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values?
Yes and No.
Why or why not?
IMHO there are two great things that this game emphasizes: creativity (crafting builds), and teamwork. Having 7 heroes of same (or different) profession allows people to test and experiment with things like never before. On the other hand, 7 heroes completely does away with actual teams so there is no real teamwork. 7 heroes isn't a really a good change, it's just a necissary change to keep people interested in a dying game.

Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future?
Yes for the Live Team - they gotta do what they gotta do to keep GW1 profitable. As for Anet and Gw2, not so sure.
In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?
It's overall a good thing for Gw1. The game has already lost so much of its integrity that this is just negligible - the positives that will come out of this should far outweigh the negatives. It would be a terrible thing to see in Gw2 though.

Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?
Considering the amount they charged for Mercs, I think profit is at least part of the picture. I'm not really sure though if players were asking for Merc-like functionalities or they just happened to already have it coded from past development.

Xiaquin · Mar 20, 2011, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

The advantage of brining another player should be that you can bring PvE skills and you can control heroes better (see hero 4-7 control flag), not so that you can make parties that other solo people can make by paying for them...

People are really good at this game and even three heroes were powerful, we didn't need 4+ mesmers to get this way. Just because we're talking cash item it's suddenly the line in the sand? Where are all of you on reducing power creep that allows these homogenizations to be so advantageous?

Go back to my ranger/ritualist comparison. Is it any wonder why homogenization is so alarming to critics? Is it not because they're so ridiculously powerful? Now go back to the argument about maintaining balance. If it was even attempted, merc heroes wouldn't be controversial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Scarlet

I think you might be missing the point here like quite a few people. Campaigns, EoTN and the BMP are games to be played they have stories and yes rewards you can get for completing them.

But Merc heros are not games, they are an extra that helps you to play the games and not games in themselves. So there can be no comparison between them (well except they have to be paid for with RL money).

Fair points...

Quote:

Anything that helps you to play a game is an advantage, whether or not it is minor.

But don't you contradict yourself here? PvE skills have subjugated and displaced, not balanced, and they are not minor advantages, they are massive. Remove the content world and look at what it did to GW; this is not right to ignore.

Captain Bulldozer · Mar 20, 2011, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Altough it should be kept in the back of the mind that when you bought an expansions or campaign, you were in fact buying a "stand-alone"-game. (Maybe even including EOTN) Whereas with this merc heroes thing, you're actually buying an upgrade, which is still "identical" to the BMP.

I've never actually thought about it, but the BMP probably was the first true advantage one could "buy" without actually buying a "new standalone game". The merc hero just stands out so much more because, as said before, it's no story content whatsoever, but pure, straight, in-game advantage, albeit being very minimal.

Actually, I'm pretty sure PvP unlock packs and skill packs predate the BMP by quite a bit. Those were in fact, even worse... since they actually gave an advantage over other players in direct competition. Suffice to say, minor in game advantages have been offered almost since the beginning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

As I said before tough, I am a bit weary as to where this is heading for GW2, as I do not have the money (And I have no troubles admitting this) to spend each month on micro-transitions solely to keep up with the rest, gameplay-wise. Then again, I still have some doubts that Anet will actually "sell" in-game advantages in GW2 which can't be gotten any other way. Because whereas BMP and Merc Heroes do offer some advantage, they're still a step away from a true advantage, in the sense of having weapons higher than the max damage, having armor with more AL, etc...

The second Anet start throwing out swords with 20-40 damage ranges, monk armors with 80 base for money, I'll worry (in a deep sense) for GW2, but untill then, I think we can be mildly positive...

There are already existing advantages in GW2 that some players will have over others, most notably HoM rewards, which are supposed to be better quality at the beginning of the game than other starting gear (and also which can be upgraded as you go along... meaning you don't have to work as hard to acquire new gear). These advantages, however, are suppose to be minor and only advantageous for a short period of time (similar to the bonus weapons in Pre-searing). So, just as the /bonus weapons don't break the game I'll continue to maintain that this direction of merc heroes is both consistent with previous decisions and not overpowered.

Essence Snow · Mar 20, 2011, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

I didn't get free platinum for playing Discovery mode the first time?
Wait yes I did, unless a one-time source of platinum is not an advantage, in which case I'm guessing theres no objections to them selling platinum then, since Platinum comes with playing the bonus mission a second time.

The Mercenary heroes are an advantage I'm not denying that, but lets not act that it hasn't been and is not currently possible to gain some sort of advantage from other purchaces.

Evertime I kill foes in any campaign in gw I get plat so basically when I play the game I get plat...I'm not sure how the bmp gives an advantage? Do the foes in the bmp drop more plat than in the non-bmp game? Where is the advantage? I'm sry but I fail to see what plat I cannot gain by farming elementals. Is the plat they drop worth less? Are the less worthy foes? Please explain!

gremlin · Mar 20, 2011, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Its a pity this game doesn't have secondary classes, if it did people could take their spare heroes make their secondary whatever they wanted and test out a 7 hero party of the same class, or whatever combo they liked.

Ok it wouldn't have quite the same punch as a prime class build but it would allow everyone to test the validity of anything the merc pack could do for no cost.
Then if they felt they had evidence to prove their case they could then argue from a better position.

Iuris · Mar 20, 2011, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Its a pity this game doesn't have secondary classes, if it did people could take their spare heroes make their secondary whatever they wanted and test out a 7 hero party of the same class, or whatever combo they liked.

Ok it wouldn't have quite the same punch as a prime class build but it would allow everyone to test the validity of anything the merc pack could do for no cost.
Then if they felt they had evidence to prove their case they could then argue from a better position.

Oooh, brother, how wrong. Changing secondary doesn't allow you access to the primary attribute of that profession, and it MATTERS.

-X/Me don't get to cast their spells 50% more often (due to the fater PvE recharge from fast casting). Also, no Psychic instability abuse.
-X/N don't have the extreme energy gains from every enemy death and every 8 seconds from Signet of Lost souls
-X/Rt don't have spawning power to power Soul twisting that lets you spam the protective spirits

Etc etc etc.

Now, I stand by my estimate that the advantages are overstated (the heroes do get their own primary attribute that will help them use their own build, taking advantage of mixed teams), but they do exist.

Demon's Dance · Mar 20, 2011, 12:11 PM // 12:11

BMP/campaigns are NOT called "cosmetic feature" by NCSOFT.It's like:"buy this it will give demigod powers".But with merc packs it's:"buy this ... it's purely for e-peen".And with small hand-written letters there is "By the way it might give you demigod powers".This (and the fact that it costs as much as all the campaigns) is what bothers me.They think we're ....... enough that we won't see the difference.By that same logic they can "give" us "one-time-consumable" that reduces damage by 20...30 and call it "cosmetic feature" for 40$.It's(But 7 heroes of same profession are not)achievable in-game so ...
P.S. I have the /bonus feature.It's ... useless=cosmetic feature ... or at least I can't find where to use it.
P.P.S. They could "abuse" catastrophe in Japan.And say:100% from sold 1 merc pack,X% from 3 mercs pack,Y% from 8 mercs pack;go to Japan...to help them recover faster.And by my standards I call it fair trade.

gremlin · Mar 20, 2011, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

Oooh, brother, how wrong. Changing secondary doesn't allow you access to the primary attribute of that profession, and it MATTERS.

-X/Me don't get to cast their spells 50% more often (due to the fater PvE recharge from fast casting). Also, no Psychic instability abuse.
-X/N don't have the extreme energy gains from every enemy death and every 8 seconds from Signet of Lost souls
-X/Rt don't have spawning power to power Soul twisting that lets you spam the protective spirits

Etc etc etc.

Now, I stand by my estimate that the advantages are overstated (the heroes do get their own primary attribute that will help them use their own build, taking advantage of mixed teams), but they do exist.

I think I know enough about this game after 4 years to work out how important the primary attribute is to a build thank you.

My View is that the Merc pack is not that big a deal certainly not worth getting upset about, some people are treating it as the beginning of the end and rabbiting on endlessly about micro transactions and how unfair it all is.

My point was that you can try out 7 heroes of any build by using secondary class.
A Ele/Necro isnt as good as a Necro/* though you could uses a Superior rune and get similar power and sticking a load points into Energy storage to see how 7 necros might work.

I never said it would be as good or useful,
What I did say was it could be used to try out the theory at no cost, I wasn't saying they could immediately vanquish the underworld.

Point is those with merc say its no big deal those without say its an unfair advantage. so go test it out.

But yes I take the point that skills that use the primary skill track couldn't be used so in that respect I was and am totally wrong.

Deadfalk · Mar 20, 2011, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

BMP gets you 30k if you complete all discoveries. This takes at least a few hours (first you have to complete each mission to unlock discovery mode and then you need to complete all discoveries). Farming 4e in topk/uw, or doing an hour (or 2 taking it generously) of raptor/vaettir farming will net you the same amount. That is all. BMP does not give you something you cannot gain (and faster) without it.

Besides that, it qualifies as semi-content, it contains new unexplored maps, "new" characters, new weapons, more storyline, and, in a way, more skills.
Also, like any campaign, by full storyline (master's = discovery, IMO) completion, it nets ~30K.

Thus it adds to GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE, the keyword for most people to pay for cash content.

Now compare it to the mercheroes, they qualify for nothing except new heroes, the characters are known, they're inferior to their classic counterpart (read : players), on equal foot with the normal heroes and, like all heroes, superior to henchmen.
MH's add no content.they give no money unobtainable w/o them.no storyline.no new weapons.no new characters nor maps.

Now, if the MH's would have to be recruited by class-generic quests (Zaishen Drilling : *class*, similar to the EotN line, multiple tasks in one quest) done on the to-be MH would add new maps, characters, probably weapons, money and thus qualify as GAMEPLAY CONTENT, making more people motivated to do it.

What im trying to say is that lots of people are feeling scammed - MHs seem an exorbitantly expensive advantage to the majority of not(-yet) buyers, and a exorbitantly-expensive cosmetic feature to lots of buyers.

enter_the_zone · Mar 20, 2011, 01:26 PM // 13:26

What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?

None, I choose not to use the option, but I'm happy for it to be there.

Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)? Explain.

I've long argued that they could sell anything in the store, just as long as it's also avaliable through gameplay, so the RMT aspect doesn't bother me. The advantage mercenary heroes gives you is marginal compared to 7 heroes and still less powerful than a team of good players, so I can't help but look at it as a fan service.

Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values? Why or why not?

Is that a joke? I point to speed clears...the themes/values went out the window ages ago. Besides, single profession team builds existed before 7 heroes, they just required people to execute.

Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future? In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?

If the trend is to do things which make playing GW feel like fun again, instead of work, then I'm all for it.

Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?

Look, they're charging for it, so it's obviously for profit, just like costumes. They've just chosen to charge for something that people seem to have wanted, which is sensible, since more people will buy it.

Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your opinion on the direction of the future of the company; namely - Guild Wars 2? If so, in a positive or negative way?

As far as I can see, it has no bearing on GW2. If I was going to read anything into this, it would be that their adoption/implementation of RMT, while currently not really advantaging those who spend real money, is definitely trending that way because more and more of the stuff in the store isn't available through gameplay. And that sucks.

ensoriki · Mar 20, 2011, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Evertime I kill foes in any campaign in gw I get plat so basically when I play the game I get plat...I'm not sure how the bmp gives an advantage? Do the foes in the bmp drop more plat than in the non-bmp game? Where is the advantage? I'm sry but I fail to see what plat I cannot gain by farming elementals. Is the plat they drop worth less? Are the less worthy foes? Please explain!

Enemies don't drop plat they drop Gold. BMP doesn't drop anything, it gives you things for it's completion which is straight plat, not gold and random drops that may or may not be worth more than 100 gold.

If speed is not an advantage then sure BMP doesn't give an advantage. If the speed of obtaining things isn't an advantage, then if they sell experience in the cash shop it's not an advantage, because you can gain exp by killing monsters.

What is the advantage of Mercenary heroes, being able to create team set ups that others cannot in order to beat things faster correct. If Mercenary heroes only allowed you to complete things at the same speed as a normal 7 hero team, then from what I understand, there is no advantage, so it is not a problem to be complaining about. We can butter up words if we want but the BMP does give you an advantage over other players.

If two people go and buy Nightfall today as their one and only campaign, and one also goes and buys the BMP. If both players finish character creation at the same time, and go through chakbek village and the like at the same time. As soon as they reach Kamadan, which will take them what 15 minutes in total max, the one with BMP can go into BMP. If he is a warrior, he can get Turai's sword and shield for both him and koss, automatically already have a max level weapon that he doesn't need to purchase or find, where as the other player without BMP is going to have to progress through the story before he sees a max lvl weapon. In addition that player can run through BMP a second time in discovery mode and get 7.5k Now tell me how is that other new player getting 7.5k that quick? He isn't. Now max weapons doesn't come into play much because the new BMP player does not have the attributes to take advantage of them yet, but the advantage becomes clear when the other player has to wait for a max level wpn to drop/buy it. The BMP player also had 7.5k to start off with, 29.5k if he did all of them.
Now what can he do with that 29.5k He can buy inscriptions at market price, or he can get a ferry to Consulate docks, get his max armour. If he buys factions too, considering he has money where the other player doesn't at normal prices (if this still works since I haven't ferried a character through consulate...in forever) he can again at standard player price get a ferry to factions, completely finish factions quests and be at max level.
He can do this all faster than the other player. If he bought the fire amp, he can also farm monsters in nightfall quicker if he doesn't go through factions and again level faster/get sunspear points faster, and bottom line progress faster.

BMP may not be seen as an advantage at end-game when your level 20, and have the farming spots mapped out for you and hard mode accessed on any character that reaches level 20, but for those who aren't in our situation? It's an advantage other overs.

If the scenario above allowing one player to quickly gain his max level weapons, armour, outfit Kossand buy additional benefits from players if he wants is not an advantage other one who would otherwise have to trek through more Istan quests/farm before he got that kind of money or weapon so be it. By the time they reach Blacktide Den, the BMP player may of started off slower in storyline progression because he was in BMp completing mini missions for a bit, but the advantage kicks in even faster when that platinum gets spent and those heroes have been outfitted with their max weapons for efficiency and he can then begin to clear area's faster than the player without BMP. By the time the new player without BMP can go and afford to outfit his heroes and himself to the same level as the BMP player, the distance in story-line progression has changed and the BMP player is ahead.

Of course again if that's not an advantage other another player I must be mistaken of what an advantage is.

Going even further if 2 players buy Nightfall and 1 buy mercenary heroes, the 1 with merc heroes can go and quickly create pvp characters to register and then get them from Alfred. Again having a speed advantage, the Speed advantage is more apparent than the one with BMP I don't deny that, but both players who put money in cash shop purchases get advantages other the player that has not.

So BMP may not be as great an advantage over other players at the mercenary hero, but it is an advantage as well.

When everyone is at max level, has beaten all campaigns and gotten all heroes, the Mercenary heroes and BMP are less advantageous, though still having some kind of advantage to them.

ogre_jd · Mar 20, 2011, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

Oooh, brother, how wrong. Changing secondary doesn't allow you access to the primary attribute of that profession, and it MATTERS.

Except that teams requiring multiples of a specific profession never need all three, four, five, etc., whatever to be using the primary attribute skills. In most builds, the primary is just a convenience rather than a necessity (with Mesmer-based interruption builds being the only real exception).

And I'm still wondering: why are people obsessed with mono-profession team builds, anyways?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Going even further if 2 players buy Nightfall and 1 buy mercenary heroes, the 1 with merc heroes can go and quickly create pvp characters to register and then get them from Alfred.

Of course, you'd be rather stupid to do that, given that Koss, Dunkoro, Melonni, and Talkhora are required and thus need to be leveled and equipped. Of course, I suppose some people don't mind constantly switching Heroes in and out and thus would have no problem swapping them for L20 mercs whenever the NF Heroes have reached the current player level and swapping out the Merc when they need a specific Hero. For me, though, that's definitely too much effort for a L2-10 benefit (if you have EotN), or even 2-20.

Frankly, the only real advantage is if you have Factions and thus can make a Ritualist merc for Spiritway since Razah's a major PitA to get on all of a player's characters.

Dzjudz · Mar 20, 2011, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

snip

Sure, if all conditions are perfect the new player with BMP might save an hour or two compared to the new player without BMP (although both have to learn gameplay, tactics, skill usage, etc, no new player will complete BMP right off the bat in an hour). On one hand I agree that the BMP does give an advantage like this. However, it is very insignificant and, more importantly, temporary. BMP does not give something you cannot get in-game by other ways (and in 99.9% of cases faster, except perhaps for brand-new players). Additionally, the BMP costs 4-5 times less than Mercs and actually gives you new gameplay.

Iuris · Mar 20, 2011, 03:55 PM // 15:55

I think all too many people are looking at
A) multiple mesmers with Psychic instability + wastrel's hexes. Theoretically, two mesmers with Psychic instability should be enough to keep a whole enemy group permanently down and taking massive damage from Wastrel's hexes. I gave it a shot, and for some reason, the AI didn't use Psychic instability much. Annoying.

B) multiple Discords (never used discord at all, but I'm assured that 3 discords are plenty enough)

Me, I'd say that the advantage over a mixed group of 3 single pofessions max is... minor.

Delete HB Already · Mar 20, 2011, 04:15 PM // 16:15

As long as the merc heroes don't provide any PvP benefits (of course they dont) then they are completely fair game. So what if someone can pve easier than you with merc heroes, you aren't competing against them. It's not like having others with merc heroes but you being without them will deteriorate your pve experience. It might help if anything because you can still team with them (I think). You can try to argue that it provides benefits to HoM grinders and I agree that it does. But again, I don't think Hom will provide any significant advantage in guild wars 2. It should not make PvP easier and if it only helps pve then it's fair game.

Dzjudz · Mar 20, 2011, 04:55 PM // 16:55

So it's fair game to offer a microtransaction with which all foes drop ectos for you? After all, it doesn't provide PvP benefits.

Also, PvE benefits might also be PvP benefits. If you have the option to easily farm a lot of gold fast, you can buy q7/q8 shields which give PvP benefits.

Your argument is poorly thought through.

locao · Mar 20, 2011, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Sure it gives a little advantage but im not too worried about it.I think johnn made a good work bringing back the joy to this game we love.As for a new profession u can buy well...
ok...but before u release that (if this will actually happens)pls fix para elem and ranger cause if u cant keep 10 professions equally fun than what about 11.

Daeheru · Mar 20, 2011, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Its a pity this game doesn't have secondary classes, if it did people could take their spare heroes make their secondary whatever they wanted and test out a 7 hero party of the same class, or whatever combo they liked.

Ok it wouldn't have quite the same punch as a prime class build but it would allow everyone to test the validity of anything the merc pack could do for no cost.
Then if they felt they had evidence to prove their case they could then argue from a better position.

Um... what??